-- "Hal removed our parenting shackles — his approach has truly liberated us, giving us back not just our 'cool', but our joy." Sheri Lynch, The Bob & Sheri Show "We received more hits on our web site than any other guest since the site has been up. The book title and topic really connect with parents." Caroline Kruse, Jacquie and Caroline, Family Matters Radio

ScreamFree Radio - News-Talk AM750 WSB

Complete Transcript, Show No. 2, Dec. 22, 2007

[Helping you to realize that all your relationships can be scream free. This is Scream Free Radio with relationship expert Hal Runkel on New Talks 750 WSB. Call now and talk to Hal at 404-872-0750 or toll free throughout Georgia at 800-WSB-TALK]

Hal: Welcome to Scream Free Radio. Hi, I'm your host Hal Runkel and I want to help you calm down, grow up, and revolutionize your relationships in the process. And you know it's Christmas season and we all talk about we want most. Our kids are telling us what we want most. I believe all of us truly want the same thing. We want great relationships. We want relationships that are filled with mutual respect. Relationships that are filled with mutual co-operation and they make us feel alive. We want relationships where when we come together with people we are mutually delighting in one another. Just being with one another. But for most of us that is far from reality and it certainly, Christmas season, how it highlights all the frustrations we have so often we want to know. Okay, what can I do to prepare myself for Christmas. And I think it's far more productive to take a step back and lets think about how Christmas is actually preparing us for our relationships. See Christmas and other anxiety ridden times but certainly holidays have this amazing power to give us a window into how our relationships really are functioning. And I'll tell you the greatest temptation is to begin to look to everyone else and to look at everyone else for how they are not behaving the way we think they should. Certainly the way towards us that we think they should. Though it's easy Christmas time to complain and complain and complain some more. And of course we hear some complaints from our kids and we took those personally.
But we end up getting this stance that says if only, if only my kids would be more appreciative and recognize all the sacrifices I'm making on their behalf. If only my spouse would support me in my efforts to, yes, raise the kids, also keep a clean home and welcome people into our home and have it feel like they are glad to be there. Everyone's happy. If only my parents would come in and not make the same complaints that they make about my spouse to me every time that he's not doing what I needed him to do. If only my boss will give me more time off. If only, if only, if only. The difficulty of the if only stance is as soon as I say it I've suddenly put all the control of my happiness into the hands of another. If only my spouse would support me, so now I am waiting on my spouse to do something differently in order for me to change, in order for me to feel better. And that's really what we want, we want to feel better, we want to feel good, almost all of our actions anything we do are fait it s motivated by a feeling we think we are going to have once we get it.
We don't want money we want the feeling money we think it is going to bring us. We don't want, we don't want wonderfully wonderful kids that are going to behave well in school we want the feeling that we feel, the pride that we feel when watching them behave well in school. So this stance of searching for feelings like that makes us weak because we are waiting for someone else to do something differently in order for us to change. If only, if only and that leads us to become emotionally reactive those are two big words that big clinical terms emotional reactivity. When I was writing my books Scream Free Parenting, which is the first in the Scream Free Living series, I made a decision I did not want to include a lot of clinical language. But that was a term that I needed to put in there, emotional reactivity. Because it describes perfectly our greatest enemy when it comes to creating the types of relationships we really crave. When it comes to actually pursuing with honesty that feeling we really want. Emotional reactivity is whenever we lose it. Whenever we lose control of our behavior we lose control and let the anxiety of the moment drive that behavior. And here's the principle behind Scream Free Living. The number one principle, the hallmark principle of Scream Free Living is that emotional reactivity - whenever we give into that anxiety and let it drive our behavior it doesn't just make things worse it actually creates the very outcomes we were hoping to avoid. It's an amazing sabitor it creates the very outcome we were hoping to avoid. I tell a story in the third chapter of my book, Scream Free Parenting, about my son. Now, we had just moved into a new house. Two story foyer, stairwell attached to one side which left a banister on the other side of the stairs, and I'm at the top of my stairs coming out of my bedroom and I hear "Hi, Daddy." Now my son was two at the time, this was several years ago, and he has started climbing on the outside of the stairs. Just hanging on to the banister pickets. Climbing on the little ledge of step on the outside of the stairs, now he is by the time that I get there he's about half way up, his feet are five feet off the ground, nothing below him but the hardwood floors. Ok Mr. Scream Free Parenting, what the heck do you do now? Now I wasn't planning on going downstairs so I could've just kept on trucking down the hall cut myself off from the situation and hope I don't hear a splat in the background.
So often I hear, you know what I'm not a scream filled parent. I'm not a screaming parent, I'm a laid back parent. Well that's - being laid back in your relationships that's just another form of screaming. It's another form of emotional reactivity because what you are doing is disconnecting because you can't handle staying connected. And your staying calm, laid back, but you're not in the moment you've disconnected and usually when it comes to parenting, especially the laid back parent is married to a screamer who's having to scream to make up for your laid backness. Which describes most marriages out there. But my integrity, I'm at the top of the stairs again, my integrity demands that I stay connected to the situation. My son, my two year old, is in mortal danger but what happens and I give into my panic? What happens if I yell? What happens if my son's in mortal danger and I lunge for him to help him? What happens? Well it just increases the likelihood that he'll fall. That's the power of emotional reactivity. What does he need most from me in that moment? He needs my calm and that's being scream free. He needs me to be under control in that moment and there And this happens in so many areas of all our relationships. Whenever we give into that emotional reactivity the moment it automatically create the very outcomes we were hoping to avoid. Case in point, I want to introduce my wife Jenny. She's producer of our show, she handles our website and all the questions that gets sent into us. Jenny welcome.

Jenny: Thank you

Hal: And you know what, one of the stories we tell about our relationship is how when we were dating, many moons ago, you broke up with me six times.

Jenny: Seven, seven times.

Hal: Thank you, and it was never me breaking up with you it was the other way around. Why?

Jenny: Well I kept thinking if only he would.

Hal: Yeah.

Jenny: It was to put it nicely...

Hal: Uh-huh.

Jenny: ...you were a little needy.

Hal: Little needy?

Jenny: Little on the needy side.

Hal: So lets just paint this picture. Lets say you're beginning to date someone and you really like them. You really, really do. You are wondering is this the one? So what you want to pursue this person, pursue him or her more than you ever have pursued anyone. And so you go on a date, you go on a couple of dates, and then there's this you know what I will call you this weekend. So you want to wait for her to call you. Right? Guys know this. You know if they say they are going to call you, you want to wait. It's kind of cool. But then she doesn't call. She doesn't call. A couple hours go by, she doesn't call. So now you are wondering cause you made no plans for the day, you're just sitting by the phone, and you're waiting and you're wondering. Soon the anxiety of that moment, the fact that she hasn't called, if you're not careful will take over. So what do you do? Do you call her? Now in the days when we were dating there were no cell phones and there was no such thing as caller id so I could call you. See if you answered and see if you were at least home.

Jenny: You would do a quick hang up.

Hal: Yeah, and do the quick hang up because then I knew you couldn't trace it because you didn't have caller id. Now those days are gone but back then that's what I did, and so I'd call and call. Now I never thought about what happens if you did answer. Well, hi.

Jenny: Hey.

Hal: You said you were going to call. Now what have I just done in that moment?

Jenny: Made yourself extremely needy.

Hal: Exactly.

Jenny: I've been sitting by the phone all day.

Hal: Yes I've put everything aside just waiting for your call. Which does not communicate what I want to communicate. It communicates not that I want you, it communicates that I need you.

Jenny: It's a little [unclear].

Hal: Exactly, and whenever I give into that, that's what happens. Whenever I give into that anxiety I begin to do activities that sabotage the whole reason behind that activity. Think about this, everybody wants Christmas this next week to be wonderful. It's the most wonderful time of the year. We want it to be and so we are going to work very, very hard to make sure it's the Frank Capra holiday moment. We want to do that. But everyone can recall whether their parents doing it or now their doing it. They can recall that the more effort that's put into making it look like it's a wonderful life, at the end, the more it ends up being more like it's a wonderful life in the difficult time. We end up creating the chaotic crazy Christmas that we were hoping to avoid all because our efforts to make it happen, to make it perfect.
404-872-0750 or 1-800-WSB-TALK that's 1-800-972-8255. You know what we can do? We can provide a window into your relationships. A window that says you know that there is another way of doing things. You can look at your relationship patterns and see things you've never seen before. Just call us 404-872-0750. You're listening to Scream Free Radio with Hal Runkel on News Talk 750 WSB.

[music]

[It's a relationship revolution you don't want to miss. You're listening to Scream Free Radio with Hal Runkel on News Talk 750 WS.]

Hal: Welcome back to the program this is Hal Runkel and I want to help you create the relationships you've always craved and those relationships are possible, they are with in your grasp, but you have to become willing to be scream free. What does it mean to be scream free? It means it means no matter what is happening to me, you know around me, I am still in control of me. Ultimately it's no matter what is happening with in me as well. This is not anxiety free living there is no such thing. This is not anxiety free, I will be anxiety free about life about my relationships when I am dead. But it is learning that anxiety management is the hallmark to creating great relationships. Not letting the anxiety of the moment automatically dictate my behavior. That's what it means to be scream free. Last time we talked about how emotional reactivity, when we do give into that anxiety it not only makes things worse it actually creates the very things we were hoping to avoid. And so I tell a story in my book about my son climbing on the outsides of the stairs and every time I tell that story at seminars I intentionally leave him there dangling on the stairs because everyone everybody wants to know well what did you do. What did you do? You know what, it's not about what I did, it's about what I didn't do. What I didn't do was panic. Now I felt panic on the inside, my son in moral danger. But I recognized that if I gave into that panic than it would again crate the likelihood, increase the likelihood that he would fall. And so I recognized as long as I'm looking at my son in mortal danger, as long as I'm seeing him perched on that ledge, then I couldn't fully regain my hope. So I had to do something that was very counter intuitive. I had to close my eyes, just for a moment, but close my eyes just to regain my composure. Scream free is ultimately about learning to create that type of pause the pause between stimulus. Your relationships, your mom driving you nuts around Christmas time, and your response. Because in that pause you can choose how you want to respond instead of automatically coming out with some knee jerk reaction, that again doesn't just makes things worse, it actually creates the very outcomes we were hoping to avoid. But you know if he's here to lose it and we've all lost it, right? There's lots of different ways to lose it but it's certainly easy. What I can't believe is that when we say that when we lose it. What's the "it" that sentence? I think it's my adulthood. That in the heat of the moment I sacrifice the very thing that I needed the most, my adulthood. Story on cnn.com, you can find it elsewhere as well but that's where I found it, about a 5-year-old boy who I believe it was this week called 911 when his mom collapsed. So this 5-year-old boy is saying I need an ambulance, able to say that. Apparently his mom had taught him if anything should happen here's what you dial. And so he did and he remained on the line with the dispatcher for 30 minutes and I think she just got an award for how she handled the situation, but this amazing quote in the middle of the article from the dispatcher. "I gave him instructions and you know what he listened better than most adults who tend to freak out. I asked him his address, house number, the color of his apartment, if he could hear the ambulances outside, anything to help us locate his mother." He listened better than most adults who tend to freak out in that panic situation, you know what the most valuable thing we have is our ability to stay scream free. That's the most valuable asset we have.
404-872-0750, 1-800-wsbtalk that's 1-800-972-8255. How are you already beginning to lose it this Christmas season, this holiday season? How are you beginning to feel that come up? Maybe it's just the already insensitive remark that has been made by your mother-in-law about oh, you chose to put the couch there this year. Those little tiny things that are able to drive you insane and it's just so easy, so very easy, to lose it. We've got an email that has come in from a woman wanting some help this holiday season.

Jenny: We do. We do. Would you like me to read it to you?

Hal: Absolutely.

Jenny: First of all my son is still on the steps.

Hal: He is. He is.

Jenny: You're going to fix that, right?

Hal: We moved. We left him there.

Jenny: Okay, this says...

Hal: He's probably eight, nine by now.

Jenny: Yeah, he could jump down.

Hal: Absolutely, he's fine.

Jenny: Okay, this reads, "Dear Hal, my whole family will be here this week and I'd love to know how to address a sticky situation before it happens again. I have a sister who always seems to be the center of attention, she complains about everything and everyone in my family. We walk on eggshells around her to make sure not upset her because she flies off the handle so easily. I'm really fed up with it and I especially don't want m y children to learn that if you pout you get your way. How can we get her to see how selfish she's being?

Hal: I don't know.

Jenny: Good luck.

Hal: Yeah, good luck with all that. Now every family to varying degrees has that one that we all need to be careful around. That one who's nerves seem to be on the outside of their skin so much so they're so sensitive that everyone is forced to accommodate to them. So we cowt our behavior, we cowt our language. All these very, very calculated ways to make to make sure that nothing upsets sister. That's what we need to do, you know what, that's the first thing you need to stop doing. How do you begin to confront someone in a way that is reflective of everything that everyone is feeling but not losing it because again if you lose it with your sister it'll just create all the relationship issues you were hoping to avoid and exasperate the one's that are already there. We'll give you concrete things what to do with that family member that you have to be careful around when we come back after the break. You're listening to News Talk 750 WSB.

[music]

[Now back to scream free radio with New York Times best selling author and creator of the scream free relationship revolution Hal Runkel on News Talk 750 WSB.]

Hal: Welcome back to the program and we had an email the last time about that sister that we all have to dance around but may not be a sister in your family. You can just think of her right now or think of that person right now that you have to dance around because that is the one person who's so sensitive that we can not upset. We cannot upset. And you k now what here's how you handle it. You have that conversation or make that comment that you've been wanting to make the whole time but you do it in an authentic way. You know what, sometimes it's you know what I don't like it when you're that picky and then simply move on. Or it can be you know what last time I did some things that upset you and I don't want to do that so could you just let me know the things that I do typically to upset you? Now that's a different stance but what you're doing is creating a scenario that makes it apparent that, you know what you're the one that always seems to get upset. You can think of that person right now, that one person in your family that is so sensitive that everyone has to dance around. Well here's a clue, if you can't think of that person, then guess what, that person is you. And everybody is dancing around you. You know what, sometimes it's those sensitive people that are the most insensitive toward others. You can make the comment about that but what you cannot do is do the silent dance and then complain about that silent dance to another family member. Say gosh man, our brother's so upset this time, don't you hate being around him or what do we do about that? That's called triangulation. Cause what that means is it's easier to complain about that person than doing anything about it. And so many times we'd rather complain about that person than doing anything about it. Instead of simply making the comment, making the statement, having the conversation, one on one. Usually relationship issues, all the solution for those relationship issues all begin with the conversation or comment you've been wanting to make but you've been afraid to so far. The fact that you won't make it is the reason why you continue to have those relationship issues. We've got a caller in Snellville. Tony, welcome to the program. Tony, you there?

Tony: Hi, hi Hal.

Hal: Hey Tony. How are you?

Tony: Hey, I'm doing pretty good.

Hal: What's going on with you this holiday season?

Tony: I have a stuttering problem, and during the holiday I tend to stutter more because I guess it's just the tension...

Hal: Sure.

Tony: ...of the holidays and stuff and I just tend to stutter more than usual so could you help me out with that?

Hal: Sure. Well you're doing a great job. Think about it, you're talking to all of Atlanta right now and you only stuttered once.

Tony: Yeah, I know this is the first time I've ever called up a radio show also.

Hal: Wow.

Tony: It's a big step for me too.

Hal: It is a big step and you barely stuttered the last time. How bad is the stuttering problem during the whole - during the rest of the year?

Tony: It's, I mean you know it's pretty good I mean I got a good control on it if I'm familiar.....

Hal: Right. But right now you're getting a little more nervous.

Tony: Yes Sir, I am.

Hal: Your getting a little more nervous.

Tony: Yes sir, and then I tend to stutter more.

Hal: Right. You know what just happened? Hold on, hold on. What just happened was I spoke in a very calm voice with you and you were able to answer me without stuttering.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: So you did something in listening to me that was able to regulate yourself. Some form of pause that you were able to bring into you and that enabled you to talk very calmly.

Tony: Yeah, it did.

Hal: And you did it again.

Tony: Yeah, I am.

Hal: You did it again. So a lot of times stuttering is fueled by the this excitability that you have to get the message out. You have to get it out. Of course the more intense pressure you put on yourself to get it out, the more you're going to be frustrated.

Tony: Yes.

Hal: Because you can't get it out.

Tony: Yes that's true.

Hal: Right? So the most difficult thing to do, is often the best thing to do and for you stop trying to get it out. Just pause. Just pause.

Tony: So is it better for me to pause before the stutter or during the stutter?

Hal: Both.

Tony: Both. Okay.

Hal: Don't be afraid of the silence.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: I mean think about it, we're talking on the radio and the worse thing to put on the radio is dead air, right? The worse thing is to put silence, you don't want that.and yet I just did it

Tony: Yeah.

Hal: It's ok.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: It means whatever is going to come out next people are going to listen more intently to.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: So the better you are able to interject that pause just be thinking about that pause, rather than thinking about what do I have to say at this moment.

Tony: Ok, so focus on the pause.

Hal: Focus on the pause, not on what you have to get communicated right now at this time. Because everyone's feeling embarrassed for me, and I'm feeling embarrassed and all that stuff just makes it worse.

Tony: Exactly, that's how I feel as I start to stutter.

Hal: Right.

Tony: I feel like people are judging me or going to make fun of me or they think I'm stupid or something.

Hal: Right, right just pause.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: Nobody thinks you're stupid.

Tony: Okay.

Hal: Thanks for the call man.

Tony: Alright Hal, thank you sir, bye.

Hal: You know we can all use that pause. We don't need something that's out of our control like stuttering to make us recognize that that pause is our best friend. It's our best friend when it comes to communicating. It's our best friend when it comes to responding. You know all of us wants to be responsible people. If you ask anybody yes, I'd like to be thought of as a responsible person, and certainly that's something we want for our kids, is to be responsible. What we don't realize is what that truly means is helped by breaking down the word. I want to become able to make a response. I want to become able to make the response that I want to make but what gets in the way is reacting. When we are reactive then we're not being responsible. We're getting in the way of ourselves being responsible. That's why the pause is so wonderfully helpful. So often we think we need to fill the noise, I mean fill the void with noise, I know what I need to say in this and because I'm saying it it's going to rectify the situation. Usually not. But we just talked earlier about how do we address that one person that is very, very sensitive in the family. Getting reactive with that person is not the way. But getting responsive with that person is the way but first you need to pause. And that's what I did when I saw on the stairs, I paused. I closed my eyes so that I could create a pause. Now you can take the breath, you can close your eyes, you can snap a rubber band, you can count to ten. There's lots of different ways to pause, everyone does it differently. You just heard a man stuttering on air, somehow not even realizing he was doing it but once he just too that breath then he was able to say what he wanted to say. My son's on the stairs and he's still climbing so what do I do after I open my eyes? Hey buddy, I acknowledge him back, "Hi daddy." He's still climbing. Now I start to gently, slowly form a response. That means one eye on him, one eye on the stairs and slowly walking down the stairs. Now in the mean time I'm praying to every god I can think of, I'm running rabbits foot whatever, hoping my son doesn't fall, right? Cause he's in mortal danger. I come to the bottom of the stairs and I again gently walk, and walk up right behind him and I reach up high enough to gently pull him down from the stairs. And I shook him and I said "How dare you?" but the pause is what saved me and my son in that situation. Kathleen, in Lawrenceville, How are you?

Kathleen: Hey there.

Hal: How are you?

Kathleen: I'm hanging in there, I'm doing pretty good, your asking for people that are about to lose it. Well I'm not about to lose it and I actually rarely do around the holidays.

Hal: Really, really?

Kathleen: And I don't know if.....

Hal: How do you do that?

Kathleen: I don't know if any of this will work for anybody else, but it works for me.

Hal: Okay.

Kathleen: One is that I realize this is not the end of the world. Nobody is going to remember anything about this Christmas five years from now.

Hal: Now how long did it take you to get to that place?

Kathleen: It took me quite a while. More years than I want to admit.

Hal: Exactly, exactly.

Kathleen: But seriously nobody is going to remember it in a few years.

Hal: Right.

Kathleen: And so my family has gotten very use to the fact that yes, Kathleen is going to ship our presents late, [laughing] we will have Christmas in January when our presents. We will have Christmas in January when our presents get here and that's all.

Hal: Sure and you're ok with that?

Kathleen: I'm fine and dandy with it.

Hal: Right, right.

Kathleen: You were talking about that one person in the family. I have a sister like that and you would handle it very different from what we do.

Hal: Okay.

Kathleen: Mine was just the opposite. Instead of telling her, "Hey I'm sorry you got me upset etc, etc." instead I say, "You know Sue, the turkey is dry as a bone I don't think you should eat it. Go hungry today okay babe. We're going to eat though, love you.

Hal: Sure, sure. I think the beginning of that is absolutely brilliant way to handle it, to just acknowledge that yep you're absolutely right.

Kathleen: You're right.

Hal: The difficulty for a lot of folks and why I'm renascent in counseling folks in that direction is because sometimes they'll take it so far that then fine, it you know what you're right absolutely there's obviously nothing we can do to please you and you're going to be upset. Then we take it, we take it in this way of I want to get you at the end there.

Kathleen: Mine was always yep you're going to blow up and I just truly don't care anymore, have a goodtime.

Hal: Sure, sure thank....

Kathleen: We're going to have our holiday anyway. You want to blow up and ruin yours that's fine, it's not going to ruin ours.

Hal: Thanks for the call Kathleen I appreciate it.

Kathleen: Have a nice....

Hal: You know what, it is absolutely if you're going to take that it's absolutely how you say it. How you make this confrontation with someone and certainly acknowledging if they have a complaint and it's absolutely correct, yes you're right the turkeys dry, and then pause. I would suggest not even following it up with and you're going to be happy and I don't care. First of all that's a lie, because we do care. We wouldn't have people over at our house if we didn't care about them. We wouldn't invite them to a wonderful holiday experience if we didn't care about them and we do want them to have a great time. Anytime you hear somebody say I don't care what anybody else say, I don't care what anybody else thinks. Think ok, that makes you a sociopath because those are the only people that don't really care what anybody else thinks. We do care but, that doesn't mean that we're going to do whatever it takes to make them happy, even if it makes me unhappy in the process. But I can say you know what, you're right the turkey is dry and leave it there. That's when a pause actually forces other people to think.

Hal: Welcome back to the program. I'm your host, Hal Runkel, and I want to help you calm down, grow up, and revolutionize your relationships in the process. So, what do we do with a 3-year-old throwing a tantrum? Like that doesn't happen everyday. So, here's the thing. As long as I think it's my job to bring this 3-year-old under control then I am going to lose control of myself in the process. It's inevitable and whenever I do that then start chasing around a 3-year-old and if aliens were watching this video they wouldn't know who's the adult and who's the child. You know what. Think about horror movies for a second. Horror movies, expecially like the one brilliant movie out right now, No Country For Old Men a Cohen Brothers movie, the bad guy doesn't chase people. He just stalks. He just walks very very slowly. Now of course it's the movies and he knows where their going before they do and he ends up right there. Haloween though they dont' chase. There's just this presence knowing that they're not going to stop until they find you. Well, in many ways that is the best way to handle a child throwing a tantrum. Is by getting absolutely calm as you can and just beginning to slowly persue them. Because what you want to do is infect them with that calm that you have and you can't do that from afar. You do want to get close to them but you dont' want to make up, throw out threats and everything. Just be calm. We mentioned about when my son had a night terror. Having a night terror requires that. Just sitting there by the bed and just making sure they don't hurt themselves. And it's amazing that they do calm themselves down. Now sometimes there's time limits. You got to get out the door. Right? And then you can begin to give choices. Look, we can get in the car the easy way or the hard way. The easy way is you calm yourself down and we walk hand in hand and get in the car. Now the hard way is that I slowly pursue you until I get you and then I pick up and I physically put you in the car seat. That probably won't be very peace filled but it is going to happen. But what's not going to happen is I'm going to let your immature behavior automatically determine mine.

We have a caller that is dealing with a child problem of a different nature she is perfect evidence that you know what we are always parents no matter how old our kids get.

Kathy welcome to the program

Kathy: Hi, how are you.
Hal: I'm doing great this holiday
Kathy: I'm a little sad
Hal: Ok, tell me what's going on
Kathy: I have an adult son. Who is struggling with opium addiction?
Hal: Ok
Kathy: It's been a really rough year.
Hal: Is this prescription?
Kathy: it started out that way. He went into rehab this past summer, and thought he was doing pretty well
Hall: You thought he was doing pretty well or he did.
Kathy: Well we thought he was doing well, well he told us he was doing well.
Hal: You and your husband
Kathy: Yes, Yes We participated in a AlononSo that we could become better informed as parents as to how to live with and deal with an addict.

Hal: What's the current situation that's leading you to call?

Kathy: He has moved back home with us.

Hal: Meaning that you have invited him to move back in.

Kathy: He asked if he could come back home.

Hal: And you said yes.

Kathy: Yes. He owns his own home. He doesn't want to live alone. He feels it's not good for him. He'll make wrong choices. He wants to be around people.

Hal: OK

Kathy: So we told him that was fine. We understand and we will support him in that effort.

Hal: For how long?

Kathy: Well he has a lot of serious financial problems. That have stemmed from this addition too.

Hal: right.

Kathy: He's trying to get him life together now.

Hal: But how long.

Kathy: We have not set a guideline in that respect.

Hal: Because?

Kathy: Because we don't know what to do. First I'm afraid that he is going to die

Hal: Of course, you are afraid he's going to die.

Kathy: So anyway

Hal: I guess it would be easy to let that fear that he was going to die just say yes when he makes any efforts to say I need help.

Kathy: Exactly

Hal: So even. I going to move in and I don't know how long... I got all these financial issues and I don't want to be alone, so can I just stay here. Because you are so afraid he's going to die, you are going to say yes, right?

Kathy: Correct

Hall: Right. But, you haven't put any conditions on that Because again you are afraid that if you do that.

Kathy: then he will leave.

Hal: He'll leave and he will die.

Kathy: Right

Hal: Right

Kathy: Right, and that's something that my husband and I have been discussing because we feel he is using again and ...

Hal: Based on evidence that you have seen.

Kathy: Yeah

Hal: He is.

Kathy: I know

Hal: Sure

Kathy: but of course he denies it.

Hal: It doesn't matter.

Kathy: I know.

Hal: He is

Kathy: We have talked about having him submit to random drug testing as long as he lives in our home. But I'm afraid to confront him with that because I'm afraid he will leave.

Hal: Exactly. You know we were talking earlier about the one person in the family that we don't want to set off. We want to dance around that person accommodate our selves around that person, thinking that's the best thing to do for everybody else

Kathy: right

Hal: And that's a good thing to do for that person. But I do have one question for you. Do you love you son?

Kathy: Of Course.

Hal: Absolutely. Are you willing to let your love for him become bigger than your worries about him?

Kathy Yeah, I know where you are going with this. Yes.

Hal: Do you want to provide him the parental presence that he needs in order to give him the best chance to succeed in life.

Kathy: Of course.

Hal: Of course you do. Right. Offering him an open ended stay as long as you want. Without any conditions is not being very loving.

Kathy: Right

Hal: It's not helpful

Kathy: OK

Hal: What is helpful is giving him structure. Which means both a sense of space. You know what here this is; we won't as about this we won't ask about this with a sense of place. If you are going to stay here then we are going to evaluate at the end of each month. With a 6 month hard decision, where if these certain conditions are not met then you are out of here. Also if you are going to stay here then you are going to submit to drug testing every week.

Kathy: (pause) OK

Hal: I lost you. I lost you there.

Kathy: Hello, I'm here.

Hal: Well, no. I lost you emotionally there.

Kathy: Well no

Hal: You were getting quiet.

Kathy: Well, I am getting quiet. Because, I know what you are saying is right.

Hal: Absolutely. You know in your heart and you know in your mind that this is the right way to go. And it's the most loving thing you could do for your son.

Kathy: Right

Hal: You anxiety is saying. Uh Oh but wait.

Kathy: What happens if he leaves?

Hal: Yeah. What happens if he leaves?

Kathy: Then I don't ...

Hal: Then you don't have control. Or at least the feeling that you have control.

Kathy: Right

Hal: The truth is that you don't have control either way.

Kathy: I know

Hal: You do have control of you through.

Kathy: Right

Hal: You have control over your responses. And the decision you have to make is are you willing to let the love for you son out weight you worry about your son. Because as long as you are listening to your worry. Then you will get exactly what you got right now. A son who has no desire, nor incentive to do anything other than immediately relieve his pain.

Kathy: Right

Hal: And that is what he does with drugs. And this is what he does with "Can I move in with mom and dad."

Kathy: Right

Hal: It's not helping him launch into responsible adulthood.

Kathy: Yes, Yep, you are right.

Hal: You can control you through.

Kathy: I know

Hal: you can control you. And recognize at least what I know to be loving. And at least I can feel good about what I am doing as a parent.

Kathy: Yeah

Hal: What I would firmly suggest is that you and your husband go back to Alonon.

Kathy: Right

Hal: Cause what I heard you say was "We did Alonon."

Kathy: We did, right

Hal: And there is not doing it.

Kathy: Right

Hal: By then it's over.

Kathy: Right, exactly.

Hal: Because you are right back into the same situation. Thank you very much for the call Katherine.

Kathy: Thank you

Hal: This is a perfect example of the dance around the one family member and accommodate ourselves because our worry about that person supersedes our love for that person. Being scream free is always about our highest principles determine out behavior not our weakest fears. Create a pause in your life and you have a much better chance. A much better chance of letting those principles rise to the surface and govern your choices.

404-872-0750 1-800-w-wetalk
You are listening to scream free radio here on 750 WSB.
Commercial Here on news talk 750 WSB. It's a relationship revaluation you don't want to miss you are listening to scream free radio with Hal Runkle on new talk 750 WS.

Welcome back to the program it's Hal Runkle I want to help you create the relationships you've always craved.

Hal: Matt welcome to the program.

Matt: Can you hear me?

Hall: I can hear you just fine.

Matt; Thanks for taking me so quickly. My mother has got some serious mental conditions. I can't eliminate or break contact with her because I have a daughter who's eight and I don't want to have any negative effects. My mother can't edit her thoughts then she has border personality disorder. Along with a whole list of other problems.

Hal: Yeah. Is she on medication?

Matt: Oh, too much.

Hal: Too much.

Matt: I mean really too much. And

Hal: Psychiatry junkie?

Matt; That's another issue

Hal: So she's in therapy as well.

Matt: She's in therapy and the doctor's keep putting her on way too much stuff. You know the borderline convinces the doctor's to give them more pain.

Hal: Sure and then say to everybody else that their doctor is the worst person in the world. Yeah, borderline do a lot of those behaviors.

Matt: I try to stay really calm because I know she's going to do things that are, you HONES ridiculous and say things that are ridiculous. And I try and stay calm but inside I get so frustrated. Because the simplious of things, I just dropped my daughter off so that they could have Christmas together. I just asked her to open the windows and air her apartment out because it's really bad and my daughter just got over pneumonia. She couldn't do it.

Hal: I have a question for you. You just mentioned that you like to limit the time that you daughter has with your mother.

Matt: To yield or not.

Hal: But you just drop your daughter off to be with

Matt: For one hour.

Hal: Mam'n

Matt: Just for one hour, one hour.

Hal: Ok. But you just dropped her to be off without you.

Matt: Well, my husband is there.

Hal: Ok

Matt: Yeah.

Hal: Does that make you feel a little bit better.

Matt: Oh my God, yes. An hour of time, I figure I try to do a little bit

Hal: Right

Matt: So that my mom can see her, but, I don't know how to..... I don't know. I don't know how to keep myself from getting stressed.

Hal: Sure, Sure. Have you ever been to therapy with her?

Matt: I can't because she is so absurd and so strained that, she'll only see her therapist. And her therapist only goal is to keep her alive. There's no other, there's nothing beyond that.

Hal: Right, right and have you talked to her therapist about that very issue.

Matt: Yes

Hal: It seems like you're not wanting to help us exist, you're just want to help us relate to each other as a family, it seems like you're just helping her to exist.

Matt: My conversations with him are, she's existing not living. Every time there's a conflict she threatens ....... I don't want to be here.

Hall: So your conversations with him are about her. Not about you.

Matt: Right

Hal: right, and see it's so easy in this situation for you to become very focus on what do I do with her. How do I handle her? How do I get her to open up her windows? And not concentrating on the only one you actually can control.

Matt: Right

Hal: You. How are ways that I can behave that can say yes to my desire to be with my mother and share my daughter with her and yet also say yes to my desire to be protective of myself and my family. So that we don't get affected by her insanity.

Matt: Perfect, yes.

Hal: how do I say yes to those?

Matt: (Laughter)

Hal: Exactly, and that question is going to be there. The answer I think is going to be different each time my gut says dropping your husband with his mother-in-law and his daughter is not the best way to answer that question.

Matt: I never have done that before. I honestly only leave them there for a few minutes with her. I got hurt and I'm on the way to the doctor right now. So I'm just going to get fixed.

Hal: Ok now

Matt: It was a last minute thing. Like normally I'm always with her. I don't just leave her; I don't trust my mom enough to leave her.

Hal: Sure, but you did this time.

Matt: I had too. I actually at the doctor right now.

Hal: An absolutely fascinating metaphor that you are going to help yourself, but ...... It's wonderful because you have to get away from her and from your husband and your daughter in order help yourself. See the difficulty is figuring out ways to help yourself while still staying connected. Because you thing it's an either or. I have to cut myself off from her or I have to control her when I'm with her. See the difficulty is trying to be in that situation but letting things happen. Seeing how it happens. Sometimes it's a ..........

Matt: And what do I do when she is so ...... when she says things that are so inappropriate

Hal: "You know what mom, that's inappropriate. I would like to stay with you. I would like for you to spend time .... Our time together but when you say things like that you it makes it very, very difficult for me to do so.

Matt: That exactly what I say to her.

Hal: Beautiful then you are doing great.

Matt: But she still does them.

Hal: there's nothing you can do that's going to magically transform her behavior forever. You can continue to focus on yourself.

Matt: Right.

Hal: It sounds like you are doing great. You need to get to the hospital and fix yourself. Thank you for the call.

Matt: Thank you.

Hal: you know that it is so easy for us to lose sight of our role in the situation not recognizing that the more we try to control the externals around us the more... especially when we try to control other people. Then we lose sight of taking care of ourselves. And that is the best thing we can do. Is to take care of ourselves, work on ourselves so that we are strong when we are with people. So that we can say the things that we want to say. So that we can, not say yes to our desire to be with someone and at the same time say yes to protect ourselves without being affected by the other person. It's incredibly difficult. But it's impossible if all we are is focused on the other person.

Bryan in Roswell, welcome to the program.

OK.
Jenny: He apparently didn't like you answer to the
Hal: Apparently not.

Jenny: Maybe it was the husband

Hal: Maybe it was. Relationships are so difficult. But is we can commit to being scream free it's amazing the changes that happen. And sometimes that commitment to be scream free means not saying anything but simply being with people. I think that last caller is a fascinating metaphor, that she had to leave in order to take care of her self. That is exactly what so many of us....... We think either I have to control the situation or I have to disconnect and detach from the situation. Being scream free is tough but it is promising, It we can connect to staying scream free we can have the relationships we all crave.

(You are listening to scream free radio. 404-872-0750 )

Music

Welcome back to the program this is Hal Runkle. I want to help you create the relationships you have always craved. And...... What we have been talking about is a central issue no matter what relationships we are involved with. My first book is Yes "Scream free parenting", but it's not just about parenting. It's about all relationships because it is such power in regaining control of ourselves and letting go of trying to control every one around us. Even our children. Power is that we began to communicate with more than our words. We communicate with our calm.

Terry you are on the program. Welcome.

Hello Terry.

Terri: I have a son that is in his 30's. He's had a relationship with a girlfriend for 8 - 9 years. It's been volatile to say the least. She is now pregnant and due in a couple of months. And the rest of the family really truly wants' to have a relationship with this expected grandchild.

Hal: Blood relative, yes.

Terri: We are really looking forward to. I've bought baby furniture and every thing to have.

Hal: Oh, my. Do you have any other grandchildren?
Terri: I do I have seven others. But the youngest, in fact the four youngest have been adopted, so I really haven't had a baby in the family for many years.

Hal: Right, so what's the problem?

Terri: We are afraid that because of his irresponsibility, that he will drive a wedge between us and the baby. And the lady's mother, they live. What we want to try and figure out is how can we best cement the relationship with just a young women who, we like her.

Hal: First question. How did you son respond when you told him what you just told me. That you are afraid that he is going to create a wedge.
Terri: Well he's aware of it and he knows that .... He says he doesn't want to marry her after all this time. And he's seeing someone else.
Hal: You didn't answer my question. You said he's aware of it. I want to know how did he respond when you specifically said we're afraid that you are going to create a wedge.

Terri: Well, he said he wants us to have a relationship too. He says, but he's afraid that maybe that his behavior was ..... and his relationship with her will cause us not to be able to.

Hal: So Son, if you are afraid son that your behavior is going to cause a rift between this grandchild and his blood grandparents then what are you doing to help your behavior in this relationship.

Terri: Well she says he doesn't want to get married.

Hal: OK

Terri: That is the only thing that he feels that would really cement the relationship.

Hal: Does his wife, I mean does his girlfriend want to get married.

Terri: Some days yes and some days no.

Hal: Got you. As my wife as well.

Terri: Does not support a marriage.

Hal: Got you, got you.

Hal: What type of relationship do you have with her?

Terri: Well

Hal: You said you like her.

Terri: Well we like her. But yet she doesn't come around. And we talk we're being nice conversation. Yesterday I told her about he baby furniture....
Hal: Sure, Sure. You extend invitations to her but she does not come around.
Terri: Right. Her Christmas present is still sitting at my house from last year.
Hal: Fascinating. Here's what you do. You invite both of them over for some form of Christmas celebration. But you invite them over and you lay it out to them. Here's really what we are afraid is going to happen. What we want to do is be the best grandparents we can be. We got some experience being grandparents. But we want to be the best grandparents we can be to this child. So tell us what we can do to be the best grandparents we can be. See the problem is you getting still hung up on the match making issue. Rather than communizing to both of them, there's something that is about to happen whether or not you get married, whether or not you speak again there is something that is about to happen. You are bringing a child into the world. And matter what happens from not on, you will always be that child's parents. And we will always be that child's grandparents. And we want to do the best we can to be that child's grandparents so you guys coach us on what you think we can do to make that happen.

Terri: Ok

Hal: Can you do that?

Terri: Oh, yeah. In fact do you think it would be beneficial at all for us to. My daughters and I, cause I'm a widow, my daughters and I to meet with her and her mother.

Hal: No. What I think would be beneficial is for you to invite both of them over and tell her and him, "This is what I want to happen."

Terri: OK

Hal: I want to be the best grandmother I can be so you guys coach me. And what you need to do then is stop any and all match making.

Terri: Oh, I'm not trying to get them together. I'm not try to get them to marry.

Hal: By worrying about their relationship, then you are worrying about the wrong relationship. What you want to be most concerned about is the relationship you have with this child.

Terri: This is true.

Hal: And so that's what you need to focus on. Not what they do with each other. Thank you very much for the call Terri:

Terri: Thank you

Hal: You know what; it is so easy to get caught in triangles. And we will talk about this on future shows. Triangles are every where. We so often do not want to address the one to one issue with that person we have the issue. We would rather talk around it than bring other people into the situation. And here's how that triangle happened with that grandmother. She wanted the relationship with that grandchild that's about to enter into the world, right. And so she gets worried about having another relationship affect that. The relationship between her son and his girlfriend. So she's saying I need to focus all my energy and my worry on getting them together so that I can have a relationship with my grandchild. But your are focusing on the wrong relationship. I want to have a great relationship with my grandchild. So that's what I'm going to tell these people about. This is a blood relative I want to do what ever it takes to bring this child into the world. Well, address your concern and issue not what you think would be their concern.

Jenny: I have a question I was just listening to that. Was she also triangulating the son in that? It seems like she was worried that the son would not want the girlfriend and all that. I think she should have gone to the girlfriend. Was that another triangle?

Hal: Yes, absolutely. That's why you address them both at the same time. Because if she went straight to the girlfriend without the son then he would feel slighted by that. And that would be another triangulation, and what you need to do is address them both about the real relationship you are concerned about.

??? I've been listening to the callers and it seems like so many times we know the right thing to do. We don't like confronting.

Hal: Well here's the truth. We would always, always rather complain than change. Always, it is so much easier to complain. And it gives us the sense of vindication and validation that I have something to complain about. And I can talk to my friends about this situation. I can complain about this but you know what you can do is address it. Calmly, confidently and in an adult way.

Jennifer in Austell, welcome to the program.

Jennifer: Well, thank you. About a half hour ago I heard somebody call in with a call about their three year old.
Hal: Yes
Jennifer: And I had a four year old with the same thing and I missed the answer.
Hal: You missed the answer. Yes. Have you ever seen a horror movie?
Jennifer: Yes
Hal: And usually the bad guy does run after its victims, he just kind of stalks.
Jennifer: Right

Hal: And his presence, his calm presence is usually the scariest thing about it. Now I'm not going to coach you to be scary with your kids. But when your four year old is halving a tantrum, what he needs most from you is a very calm presence next to him close physically to him. Instead of, and don't chase after him to get to that calm presence just slowly stalk.

Now tell me the thing that you typically do when your four year old child throws a tantrum.

Jennifer: Well. I learned a new thing recently about how you can give them choices.
Hal: Yes.
Jennifer: And by giving them a choice you can chose to sit there and throw a tantrum and mommy can not help you or you can tell me what's wrong and mommy can help you. So that's what I'm being trying to do, and it worked up until the last couple of days.

Hal: And then what happened.

Jennifer: Well not he throws tantrums where he is destroying toys and he is ..... like the other lady says you let him tear up the house, it makes more work for you later. Or you try to console him and give him his way.

Hal: Neither one of those options is appropriate.

Jennifer: And neither one is working.

Hal: And what we have to do is to communicate to our children the choices that they do have. And the choices they do not have.

Jennifer: Right

Hal: "Look you can choose to throw this fit, and I am going to stand right here and protect you and our things from getting destroyed. You can choose to throw this fit.

Jennifer: Right

Hal: What you can not choose to do is yell, scream, fight, hit, and destroy those are not choices that you have. And if you chose to do that then I will pick you up and we are going to go physically up to your room. And I'm going to put you on the bed and I'm going to lay down on top of you. Calmly, I'm not going to lose my cool in this whole process. I am going to respond to you with a calming presence.

Jennifer: Right

Hal: It is so hard when they are pushing every button that you have.

Jennifer: Absolutely.

Hal: But are you confident that you can be calm no matter what.

Jennifer: I am and that's to say my husband does not know how I do it. Cause I put up with a whole lot.

Hal: Sure. Now I don't want your to think of it as putting up with it.

Back to Radio Overview Page

Site Map | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | © Copyright ScreamFree Living Inc.